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TOPIC: Teams: Freo v Sydney

Down on down Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #99

Down on down
Bizkit. Just a couple of things

How are you in a position to say RL didn't support Simpson last week?. Are you privy to things that go on behind closed doors at the club that we aren't?? I would suggest that unless you are privy that that sort of information your comment is very ill informed and can be described as supposition at best.

Further 'RL going on a rant to the media about how Josh spat the dummy' Really?? I didn't see a rant I saw an articulate well thought out statement where RL told the media the facts as he saw them to dispel any further innuendo about what actually transpired with Simpson. To call it a rant is a bit rich and a classic over reaction.

Lastly, you question how such a 'rant' can help Josh. I would suggest that Michael Walters and Clancee Pearce being subject to such rants' may disagree with your argument.
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larkin Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #100

larkin
I'm more concerned with the missed tackles, missed kicks and handballs and missed shots on goal and of course the failures of players to get designated areas of the ground covered ...oh yeah and missed matchups. If they are out there they have to be in there – not out there – or something.
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Dr Sleep Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #101

Dr Sleep
I'm hoping the club has appropriate processes in place to support the club as a whole and individual players according to their specific circumstances.

My biggest concern is how poorly they have handled the PR component of this which then means that RL has to discuss this matter in a public forum rather than in whatever manner is truly appropriate for the situation and individual. Which means there is now room for speculation and debate about individuals which could have a real impact on individuals and the club as a whole.

I'm not one for secrets in a clubs culture but I do value discretion. We could have used a bit more of that here. A simple 'move along, nothing more to see here' might have been more appropriate in this case.
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hypen Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #102

hypen
I am more concerned with the collective lack of hunger, amazing given the team has not achieved anything yet.

The best way to get people hungry is to play others.

But Lyon doesn't do that, we have some really good players in good form down at Peel. They should be playing. Michael Apeness is one, Josh Simpson was another till he got dropped.

Simpson never should have been dropped and we could have done with some run and carry through the midfield or his skill crumbing in the fwd line. It was a typically conservative call from the club. But cultural differences aside, a dummy spit is a dummy spit.
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Jooter Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #103

Jooter
This from the Ross Lyon press conference: “He’d done enough to be picked, but in this case Josh was clearly disappointed about being out of the team, so he’s basically dropped his bundle. That’s what’s occurred there.”

The most pertinent question here - taking into account all cultural issues and parenting issues and issues relating to club management processes and whether or not they are sensitive enough to deal with cultural differences - is if Josh was actually picked for the side and was told by the coach he was a certain starter, in the 22, to be on the ground in Sydney, would Josh have boarded the plane? While no one can truly predict the outcome of hypotheticals, my personal guess is that he would have been on the plane. It's not an unreasonable guess, given all that we know - or don't know of the reasons.

Of course, there is always the possibility that Josh wouldn't have boarded the plane even if he was (hypothetically) picked, for which there would have definitely been some explanation given, which we all probably would have accepted. Outside of knowing what this explanation is, the 'dropped his bundle' comment seems appropriate.

Then, the question that needs to be asked is if Josh could overcome all the cultural/parenting issues to board the plane if he was indeed picked - remember, it is a hypothetical - then why couldn't he overcome them in order to just fly-and-watch?
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Morgan Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #104

Morgan
40-odd players had been running around in 34 degree heat for an hour when Simpson came on last week. He looked quick and had great hands, but things were pretty heavily stacked in his favour on the day. He did well, and certainly enough to suggest he should get a few more games this year, but if he thinks a half of good football in his 'first game' against a bunch of blokes who were buggered entitles him to a game the next week he's wrong. Fyfe and Mayne came into the team. Both pretty handy (although Mayne doesn't look right....but that's another issue).

Now, Simpson might fancy himself a better player than Neale, Sutcliff, Suban and C Pearce, with whom he was probably competing for a spot. I dare say in time he will be proven right on that. But has he done more at this point in time to deserve that spot? In a game on the postage stamp ground against a very good team with it's back against the wall, I reckon Suban and C Pearce were better selections, Sutcliff has forgotten how to kick, but can play (please see other thread) and given Neale averaged 30 touches for a while last season, I can certainly see why the club is giving him a crack.

But maybe Simpson's reaction isn't rational, but emotional. Fine. That happens. Does anyone think that if Simpson walked into Roly's office and tore strips off him, he would have relayed the conversation to the public? I'd suggest not. That's a real dummy spit, and I reckon it would happen from time to time with players. My (limited) understanding of young indigenous kids is that that sort of confrontation is unlikely to happen in the first place. But if Simpson was upset, and didn't want to fly to Sydney on the school holidays to sit in the stands, he could have communicated that to the club somehow (even by another player!), and my guess is the club would have dealt with it as quietly and as respectfully as possible.

What seems to have happened is that Simpson has gotten upset and hasn't communicated with anyone at the club, including teammates, that he wasn't going over for the game - which led to the farcical situation of his name being read over the airport intercom. It's pretty hard for the club to keep its dealings in-house when Simpson's behaviour has led to the issue literally being broadcast to the media at the airport.

From that point the club handled it poorly. I reckon the initial inclination was to protect Simpson by saying that he was never meant to be flying, but people saw through that. Eventually they came clean. People might disagree on what the correct approach is (personally, I would have been happier if they just picked one), but the 'communication issue', wasn't one of their creating.

I sincerely hope there is scope for differences in our footy club, and there appears to be a failing here. It was reported that Walters has been mentoring Josh, so maybe there was a disconnect because Walters has just had surgery and isn't at the club. But if Josh feels so upset of betrayed he is going to walk out on his responsibilities to the club, there has to be a mechanism there for that to be communicated. He doesn't have to walk into Roly's office, look him in the eye and tell him to get stuffed, but he has to be able to pick up the phone and tell a teammate he's not going to be on the plane, even for his own sake. I reckon the players would have been disappointed he couldn't even do that. There has to be trust among teammates. I reckon that's the first thing Pav says to him.

From the club's point of view, I think given Josh was likely to be disappointed when he was dropped, it was important that someone support him afterwards. Surely we have people at the club who can do that (I'm thinking people like Roger, Walters and Johnno, but it could be anyone really). Maybe they did that, and Josh didn't take the call. Who knows? But there's a lesson to be learnt there.

Coaches talk about 'non negotiables'. I find talk like that unsettling, but for mine, it's a non negotiable that if you are a player on our list you are robust enough to cop being dropped, and you communicate absences to someone on the team. Josh will learn that pretty quickly I reckon, and after copping a bit of a whack, hopefully he'll come out of this with that understanding.
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Bizkit Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #105

Bizkit
As i said Down On Down, RL dropped him and showed no consideration for Josh's situation in asking him to fly over without getting a game. It was as if he wanted to rub his nose in not playing. Intentional or not, it was a bad move and left him out to dry which is clearly how Josh saw it.

There's a time and place to 'be honest' with the media and the Freo management have shown a clear direction of being vague and flexible with the truth over the past few years. Whether it's just not making information public or outright refusing to mention anything about it in public it's a media tactic they have embraced. All of a sudden they have gone against that by spilling the beans on what happened with Josh after changing their story several times.

It is a poor performance in front of the media and does nothing to help Josh get back to playing AFL football. What benefit is there in telling all those pr^%$s at the Worst Australian and 6PR Josh was acting like a spoilt brat and took his bat and ball and went home? Why does that need to be made public in that manner?

As for Walters and Clancee, both are from Perth and have grown up around the city making comparisons worthless. There was also very little information given about specifics for a long time with 'not meeting team requirements' being the trotted out line for them. Walters was sent back to the WAFL by the leadership group too, not RL which is a big myth surrounding RL's godlike status among some people.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
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Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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pollyanna Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #106

pollyanna
There are, in my opinion, too many talented indigenous football player missing out from playing in the bigs - the game would be much better off including them.

Fremantle FC have a Reconciliation Action Plan (RAP) that they launched with much fanfare last year:

www.fremantlefc.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20...02013%20-%202014.pdf

Nothing wrong with letting everyone know about it at the club - yes, even those blokes yabbering in the media - and to put the words into action.

Josh is a good one, keep him on-board and contributing.
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Bizkit Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #107

Bizkit
At one point the story from Freo was that Josh called them very late to let them know he wasn't going over on the flight. Did Freo take that story back too Morgan?
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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Morgan Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #108

Morgan
The wording was 'unable to make the flight and advised us very late'. The fact Freo hadn't cancelled his flight, and had his name read over the intercom, suggests to me that it was within 30 minutes of the flight leaving. Those words could mean anything: from 'sorry skip, my car broke down, I'm not going to make it' to someone calling Josh when it became clear he was a no show, and Josh confirming he wasn't turning up.

The former doesn't fit the fit the profile of 'dropping a bundle'.
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Flag_2005 Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #109

Flag_2005
Bizkit what 'situation' did RL not consider in naming Simpson as an emergency and expecting him to fly to Sydney to be with his teammates?? Is this to now be known as 'The Special Simpson Selection Rule' or would you be just as critical of RL and the club if it was Hayden Crozier who was named as an emergency and chose not to fly?? What happened to 'there's no i in team'?
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Jezza Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #110

Jezza
There's a lot of commentary on should we or shouldn't we take kindly to Simpson's actions on boarding the plane. Having mentored young people from diverse cultures in my time, the one common thread as leaders of any organization is that everyone is treated equally. Equity and diversity is a cornerstone to success. You can throw gender equality into that mix as well. I think the best comment Roly made in his presser was that if anyone doesn't want to be in the Freo organization it'll be because the individual chooses not to. Let's not analyse cultural differences to much in this instance.
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EJ Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #111

EJ
With due respect to those wanting to back Josh Simpson, I agree with Morgan's posts on this issue.

(i) Mayne and Fyfe were coming back into the team this week. Two players from last week's team would need to make way. Unfortunately, Simpson was one of the two who drew the short straw. This happens all the time when talented, experienced players come back into a team.

(ii) However, the team requires emergencies to travel with the team just in case someone does not pull up on the day. It's been known to happen (heck, it happened to Essendon against us the week before last). Simpson was one (the only?) emergency.

(iii) Counterfactually, what would have happened had one or more of the named team fallen off some luggage in the hotel room (this also has been known to happen) or did a hammy in the warm ups? Freo would have needed an emergency (or emergencies), but Simpson would not have been there to assist. Freo would have suffered a major setback before the game had even started. Would people be feeling as charitable towards Simpson if that had happened?

(iv) According to Ross' presser, Simpson has had difficulties with family, cultural and attitudinal situations previously. The current situation was not family or cultural (which might be excusable) but attitudinal (which is not).

(v) I certainly do not detect an inflexible approach on the part of Freo's management to Simpson. Indeed, both Simpson and the coaching staff are to be commended for the improvement he has made since last year. But, for the reasons noted above, having a travelling emergency not travel for attitudinal reasons is an extremely serious matter to a professional AFL team.
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Bizkit Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #112

Bizkit
The impact it would have on him Flag 2005. Obviously I don't know him or his situation personally and as with most of this discussion there's a lot of conjecture but from what I do know of Josh I can imagine how hard it must be for him at such a young age with such a young family to be away from them so much. You'd want to have a pretty good reason for it and going to watch the footy in Sydney over the holidays is probably not high up there.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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