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TOPIC: Teams: Freo v Sydney

allezfreo Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #85

allezfreo
In response to those of you who are towing the " if he doesn't want it, he shouldn't be there" line; Josh Simpson should be treated specially because his circumstances are special.

For most of us we see football clubs as occupying a front and centre role in our society. Call me a PC, lefty, romantic but to my mind this requires that wether they like it or not, they have a DUTY to convey the attitudes and values we should expect from the people/organisations who hold such positions of influence within the community.

If we want to see players of his potential remain in the league, in my opinion everything within the clubs resources should be utilised in order to enable this. Not just because the league would be worse off without the flair and talent of its indigenous players but also because it's their responsibility, as eminent members of the community.

Unfortunately the square peg archetype is something we see far too often within our society, and as a result prodigious talents are probably lost far too often, which is societies loss.

It appears the club is helping this young man which is good to see, but that's just their duty. If they want this kid, then i shall expect them to treat his circumstances with individuality and respect until a time a resolution is found.
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Morgan Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #86

Morgan
If memory serves, before the grand final Peter Bell was talking about the internal divisions at Freo under Chris Connelly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember the subtext being that Connelly was too lenient with some of the players, and it caused a fair bit of angst amongst your more self-motivated, toe-the-line types.

There is always going to be a range with how much slack you allow for individual differences. Connelly - with his teaching background - always struck me as someone who understood that people have different backgrounds and approach situations differently. I like to think that is a good way to go about things. But it must be remembered that a more lenient approach also caused problems.

It seems to me that most footy clubs are run similarly these days, and the method proceeds on the following premises:

i. Group dynamics matter;
ii. Players respond better when they 'buy-in' to a program they help create;
iii. Peer pressure is a better disciplinary tool than top-down sanctions;
iv. Every stuff up is an opportunity to reinforce the group dynamic and define 'minimum standards' and
v. Outcomes must be behaviourally measurable.

Everyone wants the club to get behind Josh to help turn him into the best player he can be. However, the way the club treats Josh doesn't just affect Josh - it affects the other players too. In Lyon's eyes, every moment is a teaching moment, and the other players are also learning by the way the club treats Josh. The lesson, in this case, is that the individual is important, but in this caper the team always comes first.

On a personal level, there may be very good explanations for what Josh did. But he did the wrong thing by the team (certainly in not at least communicating his absence). He let the team down on that one, and that can't pass without comment by the coach. I thought Lyon's press conference was excellent.

I understand - and think it admirable - the inclination to spring to Josh's defence, and equally I understand the frustration with Josh making what, at least on it's face, seems like a pretty immature way to handle a situation. I'm sure club are doing the best they can with Josh. I'm sure they care about him as a person, and he is of value to the club for his ability. Both of those things are pretty good motivators.

These days there are many more of the toe-the-line types at footy clubs than ever before. but there are good examples of 'square pegs' like Stevie J, Dane Swan, and in our case, Michael Walters, learning how to operate in a pretty regimented system. Hopefully clubs will get better incorporating such differences while not affecting the dynamic of the majority of players who thrive in such a system.
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docked Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #87

docked
Fair enough and well said, Allez, but is the club not also entitled to a similar showing of respect by Josh Simpson and every other player - regardless of race.
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rocky333 said You Beaut

allezfreo Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #88

allezfreo
Docked, of course they are, and yes on face value and within the regimented structure of a Football club Josh's actions were inappropriate.

However I don't think that's the issue. I don't believe his actions were that of a self-serving, spoilt brat who takes a holier than thou stance as far as getting his own way concerning issues within the club.

If he was say, involved in a drive by shooting with shady underworld figures or the perpetrator of a jealousy fuelled incident of grievous bodily harm, I would consider it otherwise.

I think this is indicative of an individual who needs on going help and support adapting to his new life, more so than the other %95 of the playing group. I think the club is treating him as such.
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Gerovich Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #89

Gerovich
Good points, well made, Morgan. I hope the club can get the balance right because all of our kids need to be given every possible chance of contributing, and team success is dependent on individual contributions.
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darthmarto Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #90

darthmarto
No individual is bigger than the club.

Other than Hird of course.
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Drubbing Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #91

Drubbing
Plenty of fair points Morgan.

Freo went through a period, mostly during Connolly's time, where it was apparent later, the tail was wagging the dog. You can't run a professional football club like that. Players have to fit into a working and playing culture, that ultimately aims for everyone to achieve potential.

Freo doesn't apply a square peg policy, I doubt few clubs do these days. As docked succinctly put it - the clubs are putting in, and helping. Simpson should do the same. Or it just won't work.

I'd have thought Freo have more experience than most at this, given the number of indigenous players they've nurtured, many of who have been great players. What makes Simpson more special than any of them?
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Gerovich Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #92

Gerovich
If we're asking why is he special we are asking the wrong question. We should be asking 'how can we help?'

We will have a go at the corporation and bemoan the lack of 'club' on this site all the time. Whilst accepting Morgans points about balance let's do the club thing and support the lad. Just give him a fair go.
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wingman Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #93

wingman
Seems here that a lot comments made by people are merely to offer their personal view on how and what should be taking into consideration to deal with this particular incident, probably based on very little experience. The person and club are in the best position to address the situation and we have many examples where some have worked and others have not.

All this is doing is putting too much pressure and focus on the individual which will not improve the outcome everyone is hoping for. The club is the bigger picture so let's talk about how important the game is this week because after the weekends results a win could set us up and a loss could mean we back in the lower pack.
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rogerrocks Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #94

rogerrocks
Josh made a mistake. We all do. If we are lucky we get another go, usually after a bit of time on the outer to help us understand what we did wrong.

Like Shane said, Josh is certainly worth giving another go, and the club needs to make a really good effort to not let his talent go to waste.
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Muddy Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #95

Muddy
Outstanding comments Morgan. Put my thoughts into words perfectly
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captdazza Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #96

captdazza
In regards to the following comment:

"Would you support a Catholic player refusing to play on Good Friday and thumbing his nose at his team mates? Or a Jewish player refusing to play on the Sabbath? You wouldn't I'm sure."



3rd best All-Black of the 20th Century

His international career was also affected by his strong Christian beliefs, as he refused to play on Sundays.[9] Although he was selected for the 1987 and 1991 All Black World Cup squads, he missed three Sunday games in the 1991 tournament due to his religious beliefs. .[10] Jones was omitted from the 1995 squad as he would have been unavailable for the quarterfinal and semifinal games.[9] He was once asked how a Christian such as himself could be such an uncompromising tackler. In reply he quoted a phrase from the Bible: is better to give than receive.
2012 Duffle Champ
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From the outer said You Beaut

Bizkit Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #97

Bizkit
It's all good to say he was selfish, needs to be a team player and work as part of the club but where was the club for him? Where was the support from RL for the young bloke after his excellent effort last week? Not only is he dropped but he is then asked to fly to the other side of the country away from his two very young kids during the holidays not to play football, but as an observer?

I'd tell them where to go too and I'm a middle class white guy who's grown up in this culture without the adjustment to a new way of life. It was a pretty average move by the club and not in his best wishes. Sure Simpson could of handled it better but a 20yo father of two kids is bound to make mistakes with the pressures that entails and the club should be aware of it. Going ranting to the media about how Josh 'spat the dummy' is a horrible move and in no way helpful for Josh.
Nathan: When did you get balls?
Simon: I've always had balls you've just never seen them.
Nathan: That's the gayest thing I've ever heard.
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Alvin Prpl, shane, From the outer said You Beaut

Flag_2005 Re: Teams: Freo v Sydney 10 years 2 weeks ago #98

Flag_2005
Where was the support for the player?? So if you miss the squad and get asked to fly as an emergency it is now ok, whether you are a 2 or 200 game player, to say 'no thanks, I think I might sit this one out and hang with the kids'. That should stand us in good stead going forward.
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